Teachers Fired For Pro Trump Remarks? Superintendent Green Responds


Stan Jester
DeKalb County
Board Of Education

Cross Keys High School teachers, Diane Clark and Susan Petre, resigned “in lieu of termination,” district officials said. Both teachers were removed from their classrooms on Nov. 10 pending investigations into claims they made statements about illegal immigrants, tying it in to Donald Trump’s presidential election.

DeKalb County Schools Superintendent Stephen Green issued a statement in February saying, “Our schools will be safe places for learning and teaching. We will not tolerate any form of bullying or discrimination … on or off District property … that interferes with learning or the rights of others.”

Since then, some news outlets have taken this quote and run with it …

SCHOOLTEACHERS FIRED FOR PRO-TRUMP REMARKS
Employees of a Georgia school district known for its diversity of refugees and migrants – legal and illegal – are being told not to express themselves on or off campus if their views on immigration line up with those of President Donald Trump. If their words are considered not “welcoming” of refugees and migrants, they will face investigation and possible termination.

GEORGIA TEACHERS FIRED FOR PRO-TRUMP COMMENTS
DeKalb County Schools Superintendent Stephen Green issued a warning to teachers in the suburban Georgia County to refrain from promoting President Trump’s policies on border security and legal immigration. Since the warning was issued two teachers were reportedly forced to resign.



Dyana Bagby

WHAT HAPPENED?
Dyana Bagby with the Reporter Newspaper wrote a good piece on the school district’s investigation, CROSS KEYS TEACHERS LEAVE AFTER DSPUTED CLAIMS OF TRUMP-INSPIRED THREATS.

DeKalb Schools has released its investigative report detailing allegations that the teachers, Diane Clark and Susan Petre, threatened students with deportation. According to memos from the DeKalb schools Office of Legal Affairs, both teachers were given the choice to leave their jobs or be fired.

Clark
According to the investigation a parent called the DeKalb school’s superintendent’s office and said her son told her that Clark told students if they continued to misbehave in class “she would be making a call to the Department of Immigration.”

Clark said she is consulting a lawyer. In the DeKalb Schools report, she denied threatening anyone and said she actually spoke in support of students.

Petre
A teacher said on the day after the election one of Petre’s students told her that Petre told her class that their parents are to blame for the “problems and fears” students have about deportations and also that it was their parents fault for deportation fears because their parents brought children illegally to the U.S.

Petre said in the interview she told students that undocumented people break the law by moving to the U.S., but she also told her students she would always advocate for them. “What might have been misinterpreted was that I also stated we are a nation of laws and that undocumented people who came here broke the law,” Petre wrote in a statement to the principal.

Petre said that telling her students she was voting for Trump was a mistake. Petre also said she “never, ever threatened anyone with deportation. I said only criminals should be deported, period.”

Continue reading complete article here >>


Superintendent Stephen Green

Dr. Stephen Green
CEO & Superintendent, DeKalb County School District

A conservative news and opinion website and online news aggregator has falsely reported that DeKalb County School District employees have been fired for their political views. It is important to know that this outlet never contacted the District or me to discuss the facts.

The article inaccurately represents the voluntary departure of three school district employees, two teachers and one nurse. These former employees had been investigated by our school system for comments suggesting DeKalb students with immigrant backgrounds faced deportation. Unfortunately, these comments were publicly available to students and families and negatively impacted the employees’ effectiveness in their schools.

These former employees received full due process of law and school board regulations after allegations came to light of their inappropriate comments and actions toward students.

Following fair and thorough school district investigations by the appropriate school principals, those principals and the regional superintendent of these employees unanimously recommended termination. All three employees provided written/oral comments and were afforded a full chance to rebut allegations and challenge any recommendations. All three voluntarily left the system without termination.

We are a public education system. We receive public tax funding. We are required by federal and state authority to educate every student who comes into our system. Students must only provide information such as proof of residency, immunization records, and proof of age … not green cards or immigration status.

We fully respect the free speech and all other constitutional rights of our employees, but actions by DeKalb staff members that interfere with their ability to effectively perform their jobs or interfere with our students’ rights to receive education are simply not acceptable.

We value all students, no matter their birth homes or heritages. We love them, and we respect what their presence here says about the goodness and generosity of America. Our diversity is our strength.

We strongly support the diversity of our school system, and we greatly value our role in supporting our immigrant population through the benefits of quality education. This is a core belief. We will not tolerate any form of bullying or discrimination … on or off district property … that interferes with employees’ ability to effectively perform their jobs or that interferes with learning and the rights of others.

105 responses to “Teachers Fired For Pro Trump Remarks? Superintendent Green Responds

  1. Amen our children come first no matter what the school has to be a safe place for learning and teaching our children. Superintendent Green you are doing a great job keep up the good work we can’t save everyone adult or a child. Just do your best for the children.

  2. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    So grateful that we have a leader with clarity of purpose and clear thinking. This is a no-brainer and a non-news item. Thank you, Dr. Green, for exhibiting consistent and confidence-building leadership for DeKalb Schools in spite of rampant partisanship that pollutes our civic and public dialog.

  3. Thank you Dr. Green. Unfortunately, the devisive rhetoric of the nations political figures has emboldened many citizens to negatively impact our children and their families, Due process and diligence was done fairly and accurately.

  4. Dekalb Inside Out

    I think the news is the double standard. Hate speech from the left is tolerated if not encouraged in our schools. But if following the laws is in line with our new president and offends somebody, well then they’re outta there … because we must protect our children.

  5. What a joke

  6. Paula Caldarella

    Wow Stan…posting links from WorldNetDaily and Gateway Pundit….Were you wearing your MAGA hat while compiling this post?

  7. Dunwoody Parent

    I don’t know about hate speech and I didn’t catch what the teachers said that got them fired, but there does seem to be a double standard or at least a heightened sensitivity around immigration and deportation. I have children at Peachtree Middle School. From the stories they tell me every week, I can’t imagine what the Cross Keys teachers said is any worse than the vulgar and abusive language they get from some of their teachers at the middle school.

  8. Just giving context to the Superintendent’s remarks. I’m currently a Make DeKalb Schools Great Again kind a guy.

  9. chamblee getting screwed

    Total double standard! Libtards can say whatever they want, but if you are conservative, you get fired.

    P.S. We are going to build that wall!!!!

  10. Dr. Green made the correct call. Teachers I know are very careful to not engage on a political nature, but students want to discuss what is going on right now. I believe asking questions and playing devil’s advocate, and checking sources with older students is the way to engage. Less opinion more critical thinking. However, this was not my experience as a student in an affluent East Cobb high school. Most history professors were quite candid about their political leanings–all Republican. They were distainful of my more liberal opinions, and tough to debate. I took a foreign policy class my senior year, and was the only outspoken liberal in the class. However, I didn’t cry about not being heard or understood (or complain that conservatives don’t allow liberals to speak.) It challenged me to sharpen my skills. I have liberal friends in smaller towns that experience overwhelmingly conservative views in the school house today. I feel quite confident that liberals have not taken over the education system. That being said, students deserve to feel safe in their school. Teachers are responsible for their safety and well being. Teachers who cannot be sensitive to the needs of their students and respectful of cultural differences need to find a school that aligns with their values. Dr. Green made a good call, and people are now trying to politicize the situation. Nothing new to see here.

  11. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    DIO, my dear namesake, your comment demonstrates you have missed the point of Dr. Green’s position. The kids were threatened directly and personally by the comments. There are no partisan views that can justify that. Bring me an example of where a kid is being threatened directly and personally by a ‘liberal’ educator and I’ll go with you to Dr. Green and demand action against that “libtard” educator. Our schools should be a place where political views are openly debated as critical thought is … critical. That is a far cry from what took place. Please pay attention.

  12. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    No, Screwed. You’ve got it mixed up again. You get disciplined for threatening children in your care whether you wear an “R” or “D” on your sleeve. Now you go build that wall and everything is going to be alright.

  13. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Dunwoody Parent – I wonder if those comments at PCMS are threatening the students. If so, perhaps they are not being reported? I know it is not unheard of for educators to abuse their power over children. It is up to other adults, teachers and parents, and if no one else, the students, to report. See something, say something is a cliche but to protect the kids it is the right approach.

  14. Dunwoody Parent

    Kim, do you know what the teachers said that got them fired?

  15. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Hi Dunwoody Parent – What I know is:

    1. They resigned rather than fight the charge (and presumably be fired)
    2. What I have heard (hearsay!) from public and private sources is that the comments were directed at students paraphrased that amounted to: “Start acting right or you are going to get reported and deported.”

    What was said precisely is known only to the teachers and the students involved. Apparently, the implications were very clear to all parties and thus the parting of ways.

  16. Kudos to Dr. Green for speaking out and firmly supporting all students’ rights to a safe and welcoming educational environment.

    Sort of an aside but on the subject of firing: Stan, what’s up with HR and MIA Mr. Brown? If he has not been at DCSD since December, has the district sent out any notice to the local school administrators or to the BOE about who is covering his responsibilities? With contracts, budget, and job fair time fast approaching, it’s a critical time for HR. One would think someone would be assigned to oversee the whole department until he returns. Any word on who that is?

  17. Here’s is why there is a double standard. We can have a teacher blatantly call out an entire high school student body and call them racists (See GeorgiaEducator, Rebekah Cohen – but note the original post has been modified – it originally said that the entire student body was exhibiting racism), and not face any discipline, while others who basically repeat what the newly elected president of the United States stated as his main platform and get shown the door? Now why is that? It is because “free speech” only matters if it is the “right” type of speech in the eyes of Dr. Green and the school board. Its fine to demonstrate hatred of an entire high school because, well the word “racist” trumps any and all statements in the eyes of Green and many at the school board (and some on Stan’s blog). But repeat a campaign promise by the newly elected president? Not PC! You are gone!

    So, before I get called a name, I want to state that I do not endorse the President’s viewpoints on many matters. However, I do see a double standard here and that is unacceptable. Dr. Green is showing his true colors (and has been for the past 4 months with this SPLOST thing). Was more hopeful we’d bring in someone that wasn’t beholden to the PC police.

  18. Mr. Brown has been attending to personal family issues. The superintendent has kept the administration and BOE apprised. I believe a gentlemen by the name of Patrick Everett is attending to Brown’s duties right now.

  19. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    RunAmok: Threatening kids about a very real vulnerability does not equal political speech. Let’s keep it 100.

  20. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Let’s try abstracting this away from the immigration debate so perhaps we aren’t so confused…

    Imagine if you will that a Presidential candidate ran on a platform that included rolling back same sex marriage including prosecuting those that defy the proposed new prohibition. Imagine that candidate becomes the President. Imagine an educator admonishing students in his/her classroom for misconduct by saying: “Be quiet or I’ll turn your gay parents into President Kim’s Justice Dept and you’ll be an orphan.”

    Or for the other side of the aisle how about a President comes in on a platform of outlawing personal ownership of firearms? Do you want teachers threatening the kids of parents who openly support the right of individuals to own and bear arms?

    Am I missing something? No one wants that teacher managing their kids, do they????

  21. “Behave or you’ll be deported.” … That’s a public service message. Is there any kind of manual for describing who a teacher can call and where a student can be sent? Behave or I’ll call the [cops, principal, your parents] and send you to [jail, ISS, home, the alternative school} is fine. Behave or I’ll call ICE and send you to Mexico is a fireable offense.

  22. Dekalb Inside Out

    If it were illegal to own something like firearms in your example, and a student and or parent owned said banned items? I would hope that the teacher reports them … and sends them back to Mexico.

  23. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    DIO: Were you around during desegregation of our public schools? I bet you were a real treat, if so.

  24. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Anon: You’ve made my case for me. That kind of threatening behavior should always be reprimanded. Don’t you and DIO hear the profiling and bigotry in your own version of this dialog? How do you know a child’s status? Why are you picking on Mexican-Americans? Very sad that you can’t read in your own words precisely how wrong it would be for an educator to make such presumptions and pronouncements about a child’s family for any reason whatsoever.

  25. chamblee getting screwed

    Calling out Gokce on his BS again. This isn’t the 60s. Stop equating it – apples and oranges.

  26. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Lol. Brilliant analysis, Screwed. So, teachers should aggressively enforce political agendas and use that to threaten children randomly, right? Ok.

  27. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Let’s do a quick check via multiple choice (the preferred method of public schools). Which of the following would you guys consider a code of conduct violation (potential for dismissal):

    a) A teacher says to a class, “If any of your parents voted for Trump, they are idiots and you will not pass my class.”
    b) A teacher says to a class, “I voted for Trump because I believe in America First.”
    c) A teacher says to a class, “I believe that the immigration policies of the U.S. must be reformed.”
    d) A teacher says to a class, “Personally, I hope the President nukes Arabia until all sand ni66ers glow,” and then turns to a known Turkish-American and says,”Turkey is not in Arabia, is it? – I meant no offense.”

    Discuss.

  28. These teachers are clearly in the wrong if this is what happened. I agree with RA, it needs to be the standard for ALL views. Emotions are high and school should be a “safe zone” for all children. Political views do not belong in the classroom.

  29. chamblee getting screwed

    Gokce – you’ve not addressed the double standard notes above. Georgia Educator can call an entire high school racist and not even get a slap on the wrist? Yet these teachers did nothing that bad and got fired?!?

  30. Regardless of the race or gender of a person no student should be subjected to comments that cause them to feel ashamed. Schools are educational institutions, and it is important for students to hear different view points and ideas. I believe that any educator knows the difference between sharing information and making inappropriate comments. We all have our personal opinions about many things. As an educator, the school is not always the best place to express those opinions. But the same is true in any profession.
    This is an adult forum. It is not a classroom. No one is forced to read it. But if you are a student in a classroom, you cannot just decide not to hear remarks that are being made.
    If a person knows about students being mistreated, then they should report it.

  31. My spouse teaches in DeKalb. There were students in the class, who are American citizens but have undocumented parents, who were in shambles after the election. One child had packed their suitcase and kept it by the door in case ICE came to deport the family because the child has so few belongings. If educators threatened children with deportation, they should be fired. Period.

  32. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Screwed: Notwithstanding that you promised you were gone and not coming back here I will pay you the courtesy of a reply.

    Mrs. Morris expressed concerns about how CK kids redistricted were being treated at CCHS based on reports that were substantiated by testimony and photo evidence. Not only did these events occur and not get repudiated, thanks to the responsiveness of Dr. Sauce, central office support resources, and private organizations, CCHS has conducted a school-year long effort to raise awareness on multiculturalism, diversity and bullying. By all accounts it has been very well received and successful in positively changing the dynamics among the students.

    I have been in direct communication with Dr. Sauce about how positively things have worked out and would say we can thank Mrs. Morris for raising the question. Certainly the kids who were being bullied thank her.

    So, you want me to damn Mrs. Morris for speaking up to defend students she was concerned about due to real events and make an equivalence with teachers who directly and personally threaten students for no other reason than personal resentments or politics?

    Let me see…. No.

  33. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    “J” … thanks for keeping us grounded. Those that want to dismiss the Green administration’s action in this matter are unaware of the complexities or ignore them. Either way, Dr. Green has again demonstrated that he has the sophistication and courage to lead DCSD with energy and clarity. For that, I am grateful and all DeKalb kids are better off in this regard.

  34. @Kim,
    Please remember that for the Chamblee community, Ms. Morris’ post felt like being thrown under the bus. Yes, I know she felt terrible for “her” kids. Perhaps there was a time gap between the actions and the official response. But I think that’s called “due process” and taking time to define a solid and effective plan rather than just devising a token, knee-jerk reaction. From what I know of Dr. Sauce, he is completely committed to being responsive to problems like this and has absolutely no tolerance for bullying.

    Yet readers of Ms. Morris’ blog probably think that “the school-year long effort to raise awareness on multiculturalism, diversity and bullying” is due to her “righteous” post, rather than the initiative and commitment of the Chamblee administration.

    Just another way of looking at it. It’s tricky to call out an entire school when a small minority of teenagers does something reprehensible. I have to remember that myself.

  35. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Anon, I agree with you completely and have full confidence in Dr. Sauce’s team. I am equally sure that Mrs. Morris’ efforts have absolutely no correlation as proposed above by Screwed.

    Dr. Sauce and I discussed how optimistic we both are about the our community and I have nothing bad to say about CCHS. Where I lose it is when folks try to deny the long history of bigotry within our community and want to pass it off as if it magically disappeared in 1968. The world has certainly changed. But the haters that fought desegregation right through the 90’s are alive and well and really have only changed their vocabulary not their way of thinking.

    I would add that the majority of folks realize Mrs. Morris’ intentions were well placed and that if she erred in scope, she just as quickly corrected her comment to be more precise. Those that keep stoking hatred towards her are working their own personal problem.

  36. chamblee getting screwed

    Gokce BS alert meter is on fire!!!! I’ve come back because you are so full of complete crap that someone has to call you out on it.

    First, Morris called the entire school racists in her initial post. An employee of DeKalb county schools calling students in the school system where she is employed as a teacher racists. Someone (you?) ‘must have gotten to her because the post mysteriously was edited to pull back on that claim. But the fact remains, it was there. That was a fire able offense. Instead, you go and praise her?!? Give me a break.

    She. Called. Every. Kid. At. CCHS. A. Racist.

    Think about that for a minute. A teacher saying that. A teacher making a broad, ignorant statement.

    Folks, Gokce is not a parent at CCHS. I am. He likes to act like he’s in the know. He’s not.

    So yes, I’ll call you out on your BS as long as you continue to spew it.

  37. chamblee getting screwed

    And Kim, we all know how you want to relive the 60s. You are dying to. Apples and oranges.

  38. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Lol. Screwed. I’m an avid observer of human behavior. You know what I’ve noticed? Folks who get all in a lather about accusations of “racism” and can’t let it go tend to be guilty. I know CCHS parents who took offense to Mrs. Morris’ post and expressed their frustrations with her wording. She changed it because she agreed. Some of them even took the time to meet with her and come to a better understanding. You? Have you contacted Mrs. Morris? What did she tell you? Did she reiterate what you claim she says and thinks about CCHS? No?

    Check yourself, Screwed. It’s really showing …

  39. chamblee getting screwed

    Duky noted that Kim Gokce just called me a racist. You’re such a hypocrite. Stan, can you please caution Mr. Gokce?

  40. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Wait, I thought name calling was ok here, Stan? No?

    Hypocrites? Lol. Good one…

  41. Concerned Parent

    I would like to interrupt the toddler war that is brewing here to ask a legitimate question – How effective were these teachers in the classroom that were let go? If they were effective, classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face. If they were ineffective in the classroom, maybe this was the needed straw that broke the proverbial camel’s back…

  42. Concerned Parent,
    Utterly and shamefully ineffective. It’s my understanding that neither teacher was hired to work at CK but were transferred there by the county.

    Kim, you are amazing. Thank you for always sticking up for the amazing CK cluster kids. They are, without a doubt, the best students. And right now, many of them are living in fear. Fear that when they get home from school, their house will be empty bc their parents were picked up by ICE. And that is no exaggeration. I’ve had students tell me their parents are afraid to leave the house.

    Look, think what you want to think about immigration reform and The Wall. The fact remains that these are children and they’re terrified. No teacher, regardless of their political leanings, should ever be allowed to use a child’s undocumented status as a means to threaten them into behaving. Many of these children are themselves US citizens, by the way.

    Chamblee Getting Screwed, Kim didn’t directly call you a racist. And I’m sure you’re not…in the same way Trump says he’s “the least racist person.”

  43. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Mom, is that you? I told you to stop trolling me on the web. Thanks for the kind word.

  44. https://georgianeducator.org/2016/09/22/chamblee-charter-hs-students-welcome-cross-keys-hs-students-with-racist-obscene-comments/

    This is the article in mentioned comments from several above the post. It was originally titled “Chamblee Charter HS Students Welcome Cross Keys HS Students With Racist Obscene Comments” if you look at the web address it still comes up that way. It was later that RCM changed the wording to “SOME Chamblee…” but it was already on the web and made everyone who lived in the Chamblee attendance zone to sound like a racist. Again, I know that I will get yelled at about this, but kids do crazy things and yes, it more than likely was a CHHS student who did it, but who is to say that it wasn’t a CK student who really wanted to go back to CK because of the love of their teachers and their friends.

    I don’t know how effective the teachers who were dismissed were because I am not there but if they are ineffective then yes that was probably their last nail in the coffin and they needed to be let go.

    But, if they have data that shows that their students were excelling in their classes and have not been put on a Professional Development Plan, then the county has a major double standard problem.

    The double standard being, that there is a teacher at a school in DCSD that finds a student every year and calls them worthless, useless and a waste of space. How do I know, I had to live this nightmare last year? Now that the students got to hear it and see that the teacher did not get any repercussion except a letter or reprimand in their permanent file. A file that will not transfer with the teacher if the teacher goes to another DCSD school. My child has to hear daily “why don’t you go and kill yourself because you are so worthless”.

    I am sorry, but everyone needs to stop the bickering. If this (CK Teachers) was a one-time thing, then they should have had a letter of reprimand put in their file and if it happened again, then they should be fired. You can’t do one thing to one teacher and not do the same to another.

  45. Bill Armstrong

    Screwed: “Folks, Gokce is not a parent at CCHS. I am. He likes to act like he’s in the know. He’s not.
    So yes, I’ll call you out on your BS as long as you continue to spew it.”

    Well, I am a parent at CCHS, and CMS & HHES – I’m impressed Kim is engaging Dr. Sauce, that lets me know that Kim is likely “in the know” more than some others in the CCHS Community that, in my opinion, can go off half-cocked & uninformed. They tend to take their cues, if not outright marching orders from others.

    And like Kim I too am very impressed with Dr. Sauce & his team. And our kids at CCHS. As you know, there have been periodic emails/notices of incidences of concern – potential threats or at least bullying in a form that should be addressed, & it is. We get detailed calls & emails – reporting what it was (often something written on the bathroom wall), and the steps being taken to address them. I’m impressed.

    You build that wall. We’ll build our bridges. I think we’ll serve Chamblee better. And I say that as a Chamblee parent who is “in the know.”

    I’ll be at CCHS tonight -there is a meeting of the Cluster School Councils & some PTA leaders of the various schools. Maybe I’ll see you there? If not, reach out some time. Like Kim – I’m not hiding.

  46. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)
  47. DSW2Contributor

    Hi Stan,

    In your 11: 52 AM comment, you wrote “I believe a gentlemen by the name of Patrick Everett is attending to Brown’s duties right now.”

    Sorry to nitpick, but you flipped Mr. Patrick’s first and last names around — his correct name is Everett Patrick. He’s a great guy, but had the misfortune of being Principal at MLK HS when a student claimed she was gang-raped at the school. A 2012 article about that:
    http://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/principal-reassigned-staff-members-removed-after-s/242012679

  48. chamblee getting screwed

    Oh cool, let’s add Mr. Patrick to the list

    Things you can do in Dekalb Schools and not get fired:
    1. Create a school environment where gang raping occurs
    2. Calling an entire student body “racists”

    Things you can’t do in DeKalb County or else you WILL be fired:
    1. Repeat the primary campaign promise in a classroom by the winning Presidential candidate.

    I’m sure this list will continue to grow. After all, it’s why DeKalb is one of the worst schools systems in one of the worst public school states in the country.

  49. Hello,
    I am not trying to preach to anyone. I have enough trouble trying to keep my self together. When we were younger and use to fight with each other , a wise relative use to tell us that we needed to:” Keep Your Eyes on the Prize.”
    That is the title of a song used in the Civil Rights Movement. She would tell us that we were going to be so busy fighting each other over things that we were going to miss the big picture.
    I know that emotions and feelings can be very strong at times. But we have to stay focused on trying to make the school system do the right things for all students. All of our students deserve the best.

  50. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Joy: I’ll second that!

  51. Everett Patrick had a good reputation as the principal at Druid Hills High. However, I am not convinced that serving as a principal qualifies one to be the head of an HR department the size of DCSD. DCSD has had a long history of placing educators in roles for which they are not trained – it is a disservice to them and to the district. If Brown is going to be away for a long time, DCSD needs to find an interim that has an HR background, not an educator.

  52. Dekalb Inside Out

    Behave or you will be deported. I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  53. Hard for me to see how illegal immigration doesn’t drive down low income Americans’ wages. But it’s a global world where the jobs could move to Mexico anyway. I doubt the landscaping and dishwasher jobs are moving there, however. But the economics, in my opinion, can get real complicated. So maybe I’m wrong, and most of our government, hospitals, schools, police and business owners are in the right ignoring our immigration laws. I’m suspicious of whether they are right.

    But the kids of illegal immigrants should be offered a quality education. I’m not concerned about a bunch of frills, but being in a school with a building is pretty important. Sure, every school has temporary space. I spent partial days in a trailer for a couple of years. It’s not that big a deal. We are well beyond that, though. I don’t like all this concern about validating people’s feelings (which is how I would describe Dr. Green’s last two paragraphs) when schools are at 130% capacity. It’s well beyond time for DeKalb County to start demonstrating that all people have sacred worth.

    We need two new elementary schools and a new high school west of I-85. The social agendas/redistricting plans of Kim or DIO are not my concern, and that is 100% what these discussions are about. Dr. Green needs to build 3 schools west of I-85 and whatever other modications to make it all work. That’s a substantial investment under the current plan. If Stan/DIO/North Brookhaven can convince people to spend even more, then I’m fine with that as well. Personally, I don’t think most people in DeKalb County value our immigrant population that much. I’m surprised they value them as much as the current plan demonstrates.

    I would have ignored the comments from the teachers and finished the school year out. They would not have gotten renewed contracts, however. The principle at CKHS is apparently pretty good. Both teachers taught English as a 2nd language. I doubt the mid year replacements are very good. It was well within the district’s discretion, however, to ask them to leave immediately (IMO).

    My 3 year old acts better than ya’ll and he’s not very well disciplined even for a 3 year old.

  54. Bill Armstrong

    Screwed: Dr. Sauce was very impressive and informative at last night’s meeting at CCHS. Based on my experience with him – I’ve come to expect nothing less. But since you are a CCHS parent “in the know” I would assume you already knew that as well, and agree he is a great asset as CCHS grows & moves forward. He certainly speaks of embracing the new students, and I think he is sincere – he walks the walk. Always a pleasure to engage him. And he speaks highly of the coordinated efforts between the Cluster & Region 1 Schools.

    Since you number yourself among those parents at CCHS that think you’re getting screwed, perhaps you should address your concerns with him. If you already have, please share what you learned. If not, why not?

  55. Stan's Constituent

    Stan, This post is completely off base. You’re promoting conspiracy theories and lies. The District took the proper steps to protect the students. I’ll remember this next time you’re up for reelection. We don’t support threatening, hateful treatment of children in this district.

  56. Stan’s Constituent,
    How is Stan promoting conspiracy theories and lies? The Superintendent issued a statement and Stan was kind enough to post it. He gave the statement context by telling us about what happened to motivate the Superintendent to issue a statement. No conspiracy theory or lies there. Seems like he’s just telling us know what’s going on. Wish every board member would do that.

  57. Kim (DIO's Butt Munch)
  58. Kim (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Please Anon. Read the headline composed by Stan. He made it clear he shares the skepticism about Dr. Green’s motivations. If not, why the questioning headline? If not, why let this cesspool of inuendo and slander go on unabated? Disavow the now lethal conspiracy theory right here, Stan. I repeat my first question. Seriously?

  59. According to Media Bias/Fact Check:
    “Notes: The Gateway Pundit is a hard-right website that is not afraid of conspiracy theories and the occasional flirtation with outright white supremacists. Not a credible source that occasionally publishes fake news.”
    https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/?s=Gateway+pundit&submit=Search

    Kim is right. Your bias is clear and posting Gateway Pundit is shameful and irresponsible. And now Dr. Green is getting death threats bc of fake news like the kind you posted here?

    I’d just like to note that Stan’s homepage has the quote, “Just the facts, ma’am.” Why don’t you think about changing that to “Just the alternative facts, ma’am?”

  60. “This is a core belief. We will not tolerate any form of bullying or discrimination … on or off district property … that interferes with employees’ ability to effectively perform their jobs or that interferes with learning and the rights of others.”

    Could somebody please explain to me why this statement is at all contentious? It seems to me that Dr. Green is simply trying to promote an academic environment where students can learn unperturbed by factors that will naturally invoke stress and/or fear. The teachers were not punished for having an unpopular opinion, they were punished for threatening their students and creating a classroom where kids were more concerned about their safety than their education.

    If students can no longer learn from a teacher (for whatever reason), then the teacher has (by definition) failed, and their termination is completely justified.

  61. @Yusuf – I totally agree with your statement. What I am saying is that there is a major double standard in this county. Last year my son had a teacher who called him “worthless, useless and will never amount to anything” in front of a classroom full of students for the first six weeks of school. The AP at my son’s school got tired of me complaining so much so they allowed me to change my son’s teacher. Guess what all he got… A letter of reprimand in his file. Students got to hear what the teacher said and saw that nothing happened to the teacher so guess what they students started doing. Bullying my son to the point where he does not feel safe or comfortable at his school.

    This year when we went back to the school to talk to the AP again about the bullying situation, he pointed his finger at me and said, “I told you not to move your son. He should have just stayed in the class and finished the year.” Are you kidding me?

    My question is… Why does one teacher get to stay and one teacher has to go?

  62. So, here’s a question…..does the district tolerate student bullying of teachers? Did the students who threatened to “jump” Petre face any disciplinary action (read statement from William Lutz)? It goes both ways people. Did any of you even read the full DCSD reports posted in the Reporter’s article? I did. My conclusion: I think Petre’s forced resignation may be justified if the statements against her are true. BUT, just as she doesn’t have the right to threaten students, students also shouldn’t have the right to physically threaten teachers. No matter the circumstance, threats from anyone should never be tolerated in the school environment.

    Regarding Dr. Clark, the “evidence” against her wasn’t compelling at all, and I’m glad to know she may lawyer up. I hope she sues DCSD and that she gets every penny she deserves, as her teaching reputation and career is probably now ruined.

    By the way Stan, thank you for bringing attention to this, stay the course.

  63. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Hi Yusuf: I can explain why this is so contentious. Because “we” are not discussing the subject. Rather we are muddling it with other issues that we have with DeKalb Schools, Dr. Green, each other, or a random national political debate in an effort to contort a tenuously related argument such that it sounds plausibly related and furthers our own arguments (at least in our own minds). Makes perfect sense, right?

    By the way, welcome to the coliseum! 🙂

  64. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Survey Says, yes I read the reports. The principal clearly had more than enough information to make the recommendation or would not have. We are all out here knowing absolutely nothing first hand. Yet happily speculating about what did or didn’t happen. It is pointless. Some of us have speculated so wildly that a purely partisan fantasy about Dr. Green has led to the man receiving death threats. We are idiots. This idiot is praying for Dr. Green and his family’s personal safety.

  65. Kim, the time line is important here. “Some of us have speculated so wildly that a purely partisan fantasy about Dr. Green has led to the main receiving death threat. “. That is incorrect. The teachers resigned or were fired, however you want to look at it. The story was reported in local news outlets. Two right wing sites picked up the story and put their spin on it. THEN, Dr. Green started getting threats. Dr. Green issued a statement. Stan posted a blog that described the sequence of events with Dr. Green’s statement. Nothing we have discussed here in any way was a catalyst for those that have made threats. Our discussion is after the fact. I think what you are insinuating is extremely insulting to Stan and many of us who read and comment here.

  66. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Anon, I am not insinuating anything. I am directly saying that Stan posted this entry posing a question implying there is a question in his mind. After repeatedly asking whether that is in fact a correct interpretation he has declined to comment here and on facebook. I think that speaks volumes.

    As for the sequencing, I’m not suggesting that this blog has led to death threats. I am suggesting that extreme partisan banter here locally is what led to the story being picked up. If I could trace how that happened I would. I cannot and I am not implying otherwise.

    I have no issue with your point on the timeline – good reasoning.

    Let’s hear from Stan.

  67. Let me get this straight. You are suggesting that Stan had some intentions because of punctuation? The question mark somehow indicated that he held some crazy belief? That’s quite a leap. I didn’t read it that way. Maybe it just meant that someone questioned the district’s actions and Dr. Green responded. That’s what I read. Stan made no calls commentary. If anything my take away is that he was trying to show the District in a positive light. I think it’s a stretch to see anything else.

  68. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Well, Anon, we can just keep going back and forth on this or Stan could actually speak on the subject. Like I said, I questioned the reason for the open-ended form of the headline since he published it. Unless he decides to treat us to his views we are free to interpret what we think, no? It’s gotten kind of silly.

  69. Just because you sit on the side and “fight for others” doesn’t make you any better than anyone else. I find it interesting that KG talks about how “great” CK is but it fighting hard to redistrict same kids out of his neighborhood school. When others fight the breaking up of their cluster they are called racists. Such an easy phrase to throw around. Fact: KG meet with small group of APES parents and promised them a “premier” HS if they “jumped in his boat!” Fact: high school teacher at CK calls students at CCHS racists, no disciplinary actions taken. Fact: Dr. Green meet with APES parents and flat out stated “redistricting IS going to happen because of diversity so they needed to get on board!”

    There is SO much more, this system is corrupt. I have know doubt this is going to end badly, with our children paying the price. I ask Kim G: what is wrong with splitting CK in two ? And $$ doesn’t count. CK kids north and south do deserve schools on their neighborhoods ; updated facilities. All our kids do. Breaking up what is working isn’t the answer. An I personally am tired of all the “backroom” sleazy politics. I’m also tired of the name calling. Unless you really know someone you cannot call use the words racists or bigoted.

  70. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Enough: “I ask Kim G: what is wrong with splitting CK in two ?”

    Absolutely nothing. And that looks to be the outcome.

    As for “racism” … what “race” are we discussing? You lost me.

  71. Gökçe, I think you’re getting too wrapped up in everything else. This article was meant to bring everybody up to speed on every facet of this controversy. Look at this post for what it is. I tried to stick to the facts and make no commentary. I didn’t want this post to be about my thoughts on this.

    What everybody wants to know is … Were the teachers fired for pro Trump remarks. I also had a new statement from the superintendent. That’s where the title came from.

    The first paragraph is the same intro as the AJC article it links to. In the second paragraph I identified the sentence that generated all the controversy. I then say some news outlets took that statement and ran with it.

    There were two “news outlets” that have generated most of the controversy. I summed them up as succinctly as possible so people would know what all the hoopla is about.

    I then found Dyana Bagby’s article. She does a great job of telling us what happened at the schools. I summarize and link to Dyana’s article.

    I then posted Green’s statement. My article is a one stop shop to get anybody up to date on this situation.

  72. Dekalb Inside Out

    Dr. Green says “The voluntary departure of three school district employees” … that’s a lie or at least extremely deceptive.

  73. Dr. Leo Brown – Chief Human Capital Management Officer – The school district released this about Dr. Leo Brown

    • Effective Monday, February 27, 2017, Dr. Leo Brown who served as Chief Human Capital Management Officer since Jan. 2016, will serve in the capacity of Specialist II Compliance in the Facilities and Operations Division of the DeKalb County School District.

    • Mr. Everett Patrick, currently the Director, Employment Services – Certification and Recruitment will assume the role of Interim Chief Human Capital Management Officer. He will serve in this capacity until a permanent replacement is hired.

  74. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Stan, by posting it as a question you begged the question. So if you want benefit of the doubt then share it. I asked the question a little shocked at the headline and subsequently at the lack of response of the past few days while this thread devolved among other things into all sorts of accusations of bias and unfairness by Dr. Green in discipline policy application.

    What is the news here? What have we learned? I was hoping for a condemnation of such talk. The only thing I’ve learned so far is that you do not want to express your opinion on the question. That’s fine. Now we know and I will move on.

  75. @Stan. If you are out on FMLA you don’t get demoted upon your return. . I wonder what really is going on?

  76. I have a full time job, family and a life, so I hope you’ll forgive me if I’m not online 24/7 to answer your questions, Mr. Gökçe.

    I’ve received a lot of questions about this subject over the last couple of weeks. Dr. Green’s statement prompted me to write this article and how we got here. I’m just trying to aggregate all the information I can find.

    All I know is what I’m told by the school district and whatever else I can piece together from local sources. To DIO’s point, the fact the school district said “voluntary departure” casts a shadow on this. I can’t imagine Dunwoody Parent’s or Lynn King’s stories are unique.

    FMLA
    I believe an employee must have worked for that employer for at least 12 months before they qualify for FMLA. I don’t think Dr. Brown was there for 12 months before this personal matter came up.

  77. Kim Gokce (DIO's Butt Munch)

    If DIO has doubts, that’s fine. But if you have a concern, I hope you take it directly to Dr. Green with your one employee rather than feeding doubt here where no one has any information. I just don’t see the possible value other than spreading doubts.

    As for the burdens of office, that’s why I respect anyone who serves even when I disagree with them.

  78. Dr. Green is the one that said “voluntary departure” in his statement, so I’m not sure what taking it directly to him will do. As part of the legislative body, I have bigger fish to fry. This article touches on a number of different issues. Hopefully, I have provided enough data points for people to decide for themselves. I suspect everybody will not come to the same conclusions.

  79. Frederick Douglass
    Frederick Douglass

    Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will. Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.

  80. Bill Armstrong

    Maybe Dr. Green should issue new statement, this time regarding Education Secretary Betsy DeVos.

    I’m so glad we can close out Black History Month with a clear understanding on where the administration is heading when it comes to education, especially the priority of “school choice?”

    Education Secretary Betsy DeVos: HBCUs are “real pioneers when it comes to school choice. They are living proof that when more options are provided to students, they are afforded greater access and great quality. Their success has shown that more options help students flourish.”

    Forget the distraction of Kellyanne’s shoes on the couch. This is the real story. Not fake.

  81. Not sure what HBCUs have to do with this post, but HBCUs were started because African Americans were barred from white schools. That’s not pioneering school choice, it’s formation because of lack of choice. DeVos showed a fundamental lack of understanding of the history of HBCUs.

  82. Talk about getting off topic. The original post was in reference to Dekalb teachers getting fired. I and many others indicated that there is a double standard going on in the county in which we fire teachers for making a comment on one side of an issue and don’t even reprimand other teachers for doing something similar on another side of an issue. It clearly shows that in Dekalb County, the only type of “free” and “acceptable” speech is that of the left. Shouldn’t our classrooms be open to all viewpoints?

    I agree with Survey Says. If you check out the documentation, it seems to me that the county overreacted and overreached. I think both of these teachers have a big time lawsuit on their hands. Your tax dollars at work, Dekalb citizens.

  83. Bill Armstrong

    Jason & Run: Admittedly off topic – sorry – but the other thread based on a “Statement” issued by Dr. Green was point blank on her – just too old. Although I did post there too.

    But I didn’t see this just as a “personnel action” thread, but more the intertwining of the current political climate regarding education, in light of the recent election & the impact it is having. This really was an intriguing mix of free speech, students rights, teacher interaction, and if you think bigger picture – now this immigration issue is weaving its way into all aspects of our lives. Especially in DeKalb, this end of the county (plus Clarkston) most notably.

    So her comments – tied to school choice – a buzzword of so many for years now, her spin on a “good example” of it, are beyond baffling. To me just a reminder that with this recent chaotic explosion of activity by Trump in so many areas (budget, healthcare, immigration, military spending, environment regulation, jobs, etc.) regardless of your views, those here are obviously interested/invested in education. Will it get lost in the shuffle? fly under the radar? – if allowed to – it might. So I plan on staying vigilant, and even those here who think I’m an idiot, I bet you will too.

    Let’s see if it comes up at all tonight, and if so, in what form.

  84. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Run Amok: “Shouldn’t our classrooms be open to all viewpoints?”

    Yes. Unless or until those “viewpoints” become direct threats to students, intended or not. I sympathize with the people who lost their status with DeKalb but the assessment of the students, other educators, front office leaders, regional office leaders and the Superintendent was that they threatened the students. No one supports that.

    A viewpoint: “I’m a Republican and support President Trump.”
    A viewpoint: “Our national immigration policies are a mess and I hope our leaders finally do something about it.”
    A viewpoint: “I believe President Trump is doing what he thinks is in the best interest of the United States.”

    A threat: “Trump is just enforcing the law. Illegals have no right to be here and you better act right in my class. I have been asked to testify at deportation hearings before and what I say can influence whether your parents stay or go.”

  85. @ Kim. Using my personal case. Threat from a teacher to a student and to the parent. “You are useless and waste of space in my classroom.” And “I do not tutor lazy kids who don’t care about my class” Again how does that teacher get to stay?

  86. chamblee getting screwed

    @lynn only if you aren’t PC do you get fired.

  87. chamblee getting screwed

    Because after all, you can accuse an entire school of racism and be fine. Hell, some even give you kudos for that behavior.

  88. Dekalb Inside Out

    Behave

  89. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    How do I get html publishing rights like DIO?

  90. Rebekah Cohen Morris

    I’m probably well over a month late on this, but I did want to say something to address the general concerns about a double standard:

    1. What I do on my blog, and what I do in my classroom is not one and the same.

    2. When I originally worded the article “Chamblee Charter HS Students Welcome Cross Keys HS Students with Racist and Obscene Comments,” I was doing so in the same way that articles will say “Dunwoody Boys Beat Chamblee Boys 3-0.” No one assumes that all the boys at either school played during the game, in the same way that I (wrongly) assumed no one would think I was assuming all students made racist comments.

    3. I know it might seem like a minor difference, but I was careful to not say that people were “racist.” I said people USED racist or obscene comments. I was trying to be careful not to assume the hearts and minds of the individuals who were saying and doing these things. However, I realize this nuance was lost on some people.

    4. After speaking with several different parents, teachers, and students at Chamblee, I immediately rephrased the title to add “some” since it was clearly confusing/offending people to the point where they may not have been able to receive the very urgent message that needed to be heard.

    5. And to answer some of the other speculative questions that have floated out there: yes, I talked to many individuals at CCHS before posting my article; yes, I tried to go through the appropriate avenues before writing about it.

    It made me sick to my stomach for a good week after I’d written that. I hated writing that article. Hated it. But I felt it was necessary, and I hope that people understood my heart and where I was coming from when I reported those facts. I was receiving multiple reports a week from multiple students at CCHS regarding these kinds of incidents, and I felt that the least I could do was put the issue out to the community so that they were aware. I knew that once the community knew, they would address it.

    I hope this clarifies things.

  91. @Rebekah – I am going to take your first statement… “What I do on my blog, and what I do in my classroom is not one and the same.” Then why is ok to fire a DCDS nurse who posted a comment on Facebook on her own time and not on DCSD time?

    Also, I go back to this, because kids do crazy things and personally we do not know who wrote those comments in the bathroom because we were not there. I personally know that every student you teach worships the ground you walk on because they all say that you have done so many awesome things to help them become better people and want to do more with their lives.

    So in the end how do we know or not know that CK students wrote these comments on the bathroom wall so that they could say they wanted to go back to CK because they feared for their safety and go back to a school where they already had a loving and nurturing environment already in place and not have to rebuild one at a new school?

  92. Dekalb Inside Out

    I’ll take the second statement, “2. When I originally worded the article “Chamblee Charter HS Students Welcome Cross Keys HS Students with Racist and Obscene Comments,” I was doing so in the same way that articles will say “Dunwoody Boys Beat Chamblee Boys 3-0.” No one assumes that all the boys at either school played during the game, in the same way that I (wrongly) assumed no one would think I was assuming all students made racist comments.”

    Rebekah, When the news article says “DHS Boys Basketball beat CCHS Boys Basketball”, that means the entire boys basketball team beat the other team whether everybody on the team actually played or not. When you say Chamblee High School Students are racist and obscene, that is referring to the entire student body whether they all said/wrote something or not.

  93. Bill Armstrong

    Ironically the idea of Chamblee sports & racist comments have recently “come together,” perhaps Rebekah, Lynn & DIO are aware of a recent incident regarding racist comments made during a Chamblee Girls soccer game. While it is very unfortunate that it happened, it was reassuring that Dr. Sauce immediately sent out a letter to the school community as soon as the story “broke” reporting it & making clear it was being investigated. And then he sent out a 2nd letter advising the player making the comments was identified and being dealt with, but more important & not surprising to me, he confirmed it was no reflection on the team or the school as a whole – there isn’t a culture of hate & racism at CCHS. But incidents do occur, and when they rise to the level requiring public reporting Dr. Sauce promptly does so. And more than these types of incidents, anonymous threats do happen on occasion, and Dr. Sauce similarly reports them as well as the steps being taken to address them. Since that time there have been various presentations to the entire student body on how any such behavior is viewed by the school.

    Sadly this is a reality this day & age, and happens in all types of school communities of various demographics, all over the country. And it should be taken seriously. I am satisfied that it is at CCHS. Dr. Sauce, his staff, teachers, AND the students/parents are appropriately concerned, without being over-reactionary.

    As for the discussion at hand & the incidents & article from the fall, I won’t attempt to speak for any here, but the way I read the exchange, Rebekah is saying she didn’t word the article clearly. And while I think the article did prompt those in the CCHS community to look into the school climate, & reflect on how CCHS was being perceived, I would say that as a CCHS parent & Chamblee resident, I considered the fall incidents, as well as the recent one, to be isolated and not a reflection on the school climate and student body as a whole, my daughter included. But we cannot fully control how we are perceived from the outside. I took Rebekah’s article and the discussion/debate that followed to be helpful in bringing it in the open. But did it fully reflect how I saw & continue to see our school? in my mind – no.

    So if it seems like I am somewhat defensive of CCHS – I am. It is a great place in my opinion. Is it undergoing “growing pains” & getting ready to experience more. I am confident that Dr. Sauce, the staff & teachers, and the students/parents are up to the task. I think it’s already been demonstrated.

  94. @Bill – I am not questioning what Rebekah wrote (we all have the right to free speech), what I was questioning was why it is ok for her to keep her job and for a DCSD nurse to get fired? They both said things on their own personal time, on their own personal devices that offended many. I hope that makes sense.

  95. Bill Armstrong

    @Lynn – I get that & others have made similar comparisons to other examples of “if this – why not that?” I just don’t think that’s for her to answer – obviously it wasn’t her choice. I would say that HR would be responsible & be able to cite policies that explain the potential inconsistency. Double standards are everywhere & as a general rule I don’t think they should be permitted. The nurse you mention, the CK teachers here, Rebekah, I’m not sufficiently informed of all the details to say the decisions were wrong, all or some. I would say that DCSD has a long history of unclear policies, such as board ethics, selective enforcement, that make it hard to understand what’s going on.

    The right of free speech in the context of public education, for administrators, teachers & students, can be touchy. The 1st Amend can be used as cover for abuses; PC &/or more conservative thinking can be used to quiet legitimate speech. Clear rules help, but even then you can end up in the courts, coming from both directions.

    And social media is making it more complicated – is cell-phone – text/snapchat/instagram bullying under the jurisdiction of the schools? What if everything happened while on school grounds. Maybe on the same wifi network? At a game? In a bus? What if it’s done in addition to traditional face-to-face bullying? This is tough. Adults (teachers) on facebook – better be careful too. An online article, a blog, what’s actionable? Tough.

    Consistent rules – to any doable extent, I’d like to see them. Maybe not be charged with writing or ruling on them.

  96. I just wish teachers would focus on teaching and not becoming political activists. Maybe we’d see better results in Dekalb County if that were the case.

  97. My kids teachers have all kinds of Obama crap up and rave about him. At the same time, my kids feel threatened to express an opposite view. It seems clear that free speech is alotted to only one side. Freedom of speech isn’t allowed for Republican, law and order, dissenting, or non-PC ideas. Ah, the tolerant left.

  98. chamblee getting screwed

    If you want your kids to get fair and balanced, get the hell out of Dekalb.

  99. @ Bill – Per page 65 of the Student Code of Conduct, yes, online social media and cell phones are covered under the school system. Not tough to figure out, just not being enforced.

    Your next statement I am going to disagree with, and I am maybe just reading this out of context so if I am please excuse me. “obviously it wasn’t her choice. ” Yes, she made a choice to publish an article that she did not know the true facts on. She only has one person’s side of the story. Neither she nor I was in that bathroom so we can not say 100% who wrote those comments. If she did not have concrete proof, then she really should not have said anything on social media. Today, if you go and “Google” her article, the original title still comes up.

    I am just trying to keep the county out of losing money on a huge lawsuit, which I believe the nurse has a case since the precedent has been set that a teacher can use social media to call a school racist and that teacher was not fired. Do I want either person fired, no. I am just saying you can’t do one thing to one person and not to another. Yes, I know a number of parents in the CCHS community complained to Ms. Johnson. Do I know the outcome of the interactions between the system and Ms. Morris, no. That is between Ms. Morris and DCSD. I even sent Ms. Morris a private message about how upset I was at her language she used in her title. She did apologize and stated that she really did not mean the way the title came out.

    When the county settles lawsuits because of not following procedures and rules set in place and picks and chooses who they fire and keep on then the students lose and that is where I have a huge problem.

  100. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    I know this is feeding a tangent but I can’t resist. Regarding CCHS and the backlash on Rebekah’s article, we are acting like there isn’t a long and well-established history here. Just as Bill recognized and celebrates the efforts of Dr. Sauce and team I regularly do the same. And it is deserved. The fact is, though, that they are responding to actual challenges not imagined ones.

    The amount of disdain and bigotry directed at these kids is well documented for at least two decades. The map itself tells the story and no one disputes that fact. It’s shameful and embarrassing. We hear it on this blog, we hear it in everyday conversations, we hear it in local, regional and now even national debates. I’ve heard it for ten years locally in my social network in Chamblee, Dunwoody, and Brookhaven even in “polite” company. And we doubt it still?

    Last Friday’s soccer match at North DeKalb Stadium is a microcosm of the problem, I think. After the very physical and hotly contested match that resulted in a CK victory (woot!), 3-2, one CCHS player decided to extend his personal hospitality to the CK squad by inviting them to go back to their own country in very angry terms. Luckily, the CCHS coach immediately and aggressively “coached” the young man out of more trouble. There was also an obligatory patriotic chant of “Trump, Trump” from a few in the stands. Does this incident make CCHS futbol squad bigoted? Of course not. The boy’s coach and most of his squad were embarrassed by the conduct and outburst.

    But we have to realize that when such hateful comments are made it leaves an impression with those on the receiving end of the hate and how easy it is to generalize about the source. I have been a booster of our futbol programs for a long time and have heard and seen personally the ongoing hate spewed at them on and off the field wherever they go. When going to certain “away” venues, the coaches make sure the players immediately leave the pitch and go quickly to the buses to avoid trouble. Some private schools were notorious hosts to the most vicious race and ethnic-based taunting to the point that a coach refused to schedule them. This nonsense has led to many a red card and a couple of coach ejections. At some point we have to all recognize that such behavior is unacceptable and reject it in an unqualified manner and stop making excuses for it.

    I know CCHS is a great school full of great kids. It is also home to some pretty deep-seated bigotry. And why should we be surprised that this particular institution is free from what is common virtually everywhere else?

  101. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    … and before my favorite troll, Screwed, and others may jump in and libtard or snowflake me let me expand with this … it’s not all about “white” people. Get over yourselves. There is also apparently a recent incident where CCHS latino athletes were taunting Clarkston kids on a race or ethnic basis. Hate knows no boundaries folks. We should reject it in whatever form and wherever it occurs.

  102. Bill Armstrong

    Lynn – yes it was her choice to write & publish the article – just not her choice on how the system responded to it as opposed to the nurse or other cases. I don’t think it’s her to advocate on behalf of the nurse or the CK teachers. But perhaps I’m reading more into what your are saying. I certainly agree the system has a track record of being inconsistent.

    As for social media – while it is true that the system spells out what it has jurisdiction over, whether they really do, or can really prove it? not so clear. And are they willing to go to court for it trying to claim jurisdiction, although they also risk potential liability for not enforcing it. If clearly established during school hours &/or school networks &/or on bus & other activities, I think they normally have a clear case. If they can even prove that – not always as easy as it might sound.

    But while they do expressly give themselves jurisdiction over “cyberbullying” & I think clearly have it when truly established “at-school,” they essentially claim the have it potentially when not on campus: “off-campus when the behavior results in a disruption to the school environment” on page 66. But proving that “disruption” that is a subjective decision. And even when “on campus” – hard to tell. Unless you are taking screenshots & establishing datestamps much can be taken down or gone – like snapshat & other apps. Sure they could try to get those records from the providers – but that is very hard.

    And we all know much phone activity takes place off campus late at night. Much can be forwarded around multiple times, care taken to not have faces or voices on it, you hear of it being talked about by other kids who are following someone you aren’t, on & on, it’s just tough.

    And I say this because I sat in a hearing for bullying & the offender had done enough on campus & corroborated by other students to reach the threshold of triggering enforcement. We were arguing the “disruption” approach for some off-campus cyber. We had some screenshots of things clearly done off campus, forwarding was also involved. NOTE: We are very clear on rules & strategies with our kids on how to deal with this, including what not to even forward or discuss – they are told to show us everything (I think they do as a rule – but you never know for sure). In fact both my MS & HS have their phones taken at bedtime & reviewed nightly. Hey, privacy in that regard – another topic for parents, I think we are clear on where the line is.

    The screenshots we brought to the hearing, I think they considered them – we left print-offs of them, but if it was just on those alone – I’m not sure they would have acted with discipline.

    And as an attorney I get why. Schools are faced with trying to put rules in place, with good intentions & generally good results. But I’d say some might be aspirational, as the law is far from clear exactly what can be banned, actionable etc. Which gets to “are they willing to go to court with it?” Example, long suspension/expulsion for cyber-whatever, all off campus. Yes, I know there are stages of punishment, but especially the final straw? hard to say.

    Now I agree it could certainly be forward to other legal authorities = a fist fight walking home from school. Traditionally that’s considered a police problem. A cyber-attack of some sort, entirely off-campus without anything else under traditional bullying, in the bathroom, etc. I think they tend to back off. And as parents that’s how much teen social activity happens these days. Heck, many kids “date” in MS without ever seeing each other in person – except maybe passing in the hall.

    And like I said – we had enough “regular” proof, and I think the MS handled it appropriately. If I was an administrator provided a few snapchap screen shots – maybe even cleaned of faces, just that nothing at school, and it wasn’t fairly serious even in the victim’s eyes (yes, subjective) – and nothing else, while I would certainly try to corroborate it, get a confession, etc. if that’s all I had, not sure exactly what I would do.

    Of course, just think about how much of this goes unreported by the kids – to anyone, I’d suspect much less than “traditional” bullying, which still isn’t that often – despite efforts for awareness.

    This is certainly something worthy of its own discussion/debate. And while I think could be seen as off-topic, I think it does relate when it comes 1st Amend. “I have a right to communicate away from school, and I don’t think you have the right to “police” me.” Similar to facebook posts by teachers. Who would win in court?

    I found this Wake Forest Law Review article interesting: http://wakeforestlawreview.com/2011/11/how-public-schools-can-constitutionally-halt-cyberbullying-a-model-cyberbullying-policy-that-considers-first-amendment-due-process-and-fourth-amendment-challenges/

  103. Bill Armstrong

    Yes Kim – the 1st one – fairly publicized did come from a CCHS Latino angle, although I’m not sure that was made public, it was certainly know among the soccer players, parents & many other in the school. Like I say it was handled appropriately in my view. Sorry to hear about anything last Friday on senior night. Not sure if that has reached the level of “fully established” or “common knowledge” – but, as you also say – it is everywhere.

    Even when isolated & addressed appropriately by the school, there are only so many presentations you can make to the students – wish more could be said to some parents. CCHS is a great place, and while diversity can come with unfortunate interactions, it’s part of why we live here, and when I think to my fairly isolated upbringing in North Georgia – Dalton (it came far before the Hispanic population immigration there) we are light years passed that.

    And when I watch the way my own children & their peers see race, culture, etc. and interact & act in today’s reality, I am proud & amazed at times. I wish I had the opportunities they have.

  104. Kim Gökçe (DIO's Butt Munch)

    Bill – yes to all that. I especially want to say that I am ALWAYS more encouraged than discouraged by what I see in our youth at CCHS, CK, and around our community. They are twice the human beings I’ll ever be and we “adults” could learn much from them.

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