In October, as the DeKalb School District offered up three options to address capacity needs in North DeKalb, the administration met with school councils and had a few meetings around the county. At the time,the administration estimated that, if Option B was selected, $23 million would be spent at Dunwoody High School (DHS) and add an additional 600 seats.
If Option A was selected, SPLOST V money spent in North DeKalb would go towards building a Doraville High School. Once completed, some students would be redistricted out of DHS to a new Doraville High School. Keep in mind, the current attendance zone for Dunwoody High School includes all of the city of Dunwoody, plus one elementary school with an attendance area almost entirely in Doraville.
The DHS school council chair communicated to me that the council wanted to see money spent at DHS. He shared that the council envisioned renovations to existing media rooms, art rooms, locker rooms, band room, choir room, gymnasium, fields and other common areas, in addition to the 600 seats.
Shortly after the DHS school council sent in their letter supporting a modified Option B, including the 600 seat building addition, the administration reduced the amount of money to be spent at DHS from $23 million to $16 million. Subsequent to reducing the funding, the administration then released the conceptual plans which included no renovations and very little additions to common spaces. I can only assume the timing was intentional as they had the conceptual plans since July.
Stan Jester
Moving forward, I’m trying to understand the support for the building addition.
The speculation that some Dunwoody residents would be redistricted out of DHS seems to be the only reason for any continued support of the building additions.
Will the addition of 600 seats (300ish students) or redistricting 600 students out of DHS make things better or worse for the school and the community?
| 600 Seat Addition | District Out 600 Students | |
|---|---|---|
| Cafeteria Area | Worse | Better |
| Kitchen | Neutral | Neutral |
| Parking | Worse | Better |
| Media Center | Neutral | Better |
| Gymnasium | Worse | Better |
| Field Space | Worse | Better |
| Field Conditions | Neutral | Neutral |
| Band Room Space | Worse | Better |
| Choral Room Space | Neutral | Neutral |
| Hallways Space | Worse | Better |
Supporting Documentation
October 2016 FTE Enrollment Report, by school, by grade
• Dunwoody HS – 600 Seat Addition – Conceptual Plans
GA DOE Guideline for Square Footage Requirements for Educational Facilities 160-5-4-.16 (a)
2017-2022 E-SPLOST Project List
Joshua Williams
DeKalb County Chief Operating Officer
Cafeteria Area
The 600 seat addition will include a cafeteria extension of 485 sq/ft. A 485 sq/ft extension to the cafeteria to accommodate a 600 seat addition makes no sense. Redistricting 600 students out of DHS leaves the students with more cafeteria space per student.
Kitchen
The 2017-2022 E-SPLOST Project List includes $17,000 for new kitchen equipment whether DHS gets the addition or not. The Kitchen extension of 1,731 sq/ft is enough to accommodate the building addition. Redistricting students out of DHS would also help by reducing the necessary kitchen capacity.
Parking
Parking is already atrocious at DHS due to the overcrowding. Along with the building addition, the district recommends paving over the retention pond to add 160 parking spaces. A building addition of 600 seats, 300 more students and untold staff means less parking per student. Redistricting 600 students means more parking per student.
Media Center
GA DOE requirements spell out the Media Center requirements. The new 2,020 sq/ft media center addition keeps pace with the building addition. Redistricting 600 students means more media center space per student.
Gymnasium
The DHS school council chair, Chad Griffith, spoke at length about the capacity issues with the DHS gymnasium. The building additions will do absolutely nothing to address the gym capacity issues and will only make a difficult issue worse. Redistricting 600 students means more gymnasium per student and fewer issues.
Field Space
The building additions does not include a land purchase, and will thus result in less field space per student. Redistricting 600 students means more field space per student.
Field Conditions
The 2017-2022 E-SPLOST Project List includes $.79 million for field improvements. This will happen whether DHS gets an addition or not.
Band Room Space
The band room is a dungeon. From what I can tell, they converted the basement to a room where they put the band. The building additions projects does nothing to address the dungeon. Redistricting 600 students out of DHS will result in more band room per student.
Choral Room
DHS current has no home for the choir. Neither the additional seats nor redistricting students will address that.
Hallways
GA DOE Guideline for Square Footage Requirements says that small schools must have corridors 8ft wide and large schools must have corridors 12ft wide. There is no formula to calculate the recommended width of corridors for mega schools, so DHS is on its own if it adds 600 seats. The hallways would become more crowded. Reducing the population at DHS would help with the overburdened areas like hallways.
Chamblee Charter High governance team has also expressed their opposition to the school district’s plan to add seats to their school. Lakeside High School Council has not made any official statements, but is slated to get 750 new seats They both face similar issues as Dunwoody High School. I plan to blog soon on their issues.
“Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue.”
This ship has sailed…time to discuss how to make the best of our options and support the project list discussions in a constructive way. I want to thank the DHS and PCMS councils for representing what was best for all of Dunwoody (keeping the community together) and nobody would have advocated a money refusal for their schools. Refusing money toward improvements (however limited you think they are) would have been a totally irresponsible decision. The complaints about parking, cafeteria, etc already existed so it is not like things were perfect and are now a mess. Time to move on from the pros and cons and talk about solutions.
Thank you Jane. “nobody would have advocated a money refusal for their schools” is exactly the type of reasoning I’ve received. (BTW: Chamblee Charter HS governance team advocates for no building additions)
I will fight for DHS to get as many issues addressed as possible. However, as far as I can see, the building additions is a bad idea and will negatively affect a super majority of Dunwoody. These building additions means less common space per student … more crowded gym, cafeteria, locker room, hallways, etc …
Not enough money left in the Splost pot for another District 1 high school. Even if a location were available. If rather see any budget excess go towards increasing teacher pay. Sounds like you are pushing for DHS to refuse the 600-seat addition and push for a new high school in the 2022 E-splost? Otherwise, what are the options? Reverse the board vote? What is your “ask” here, Stan?
There is plenty of money to build a high school in District 1. They don’t want to do it. There is land available. SPLOST money cannot be used for teacher pay. I absolutely want to board to reverse this vote. So do CCHS and many other schools communities.
Is there enough money for a Doraville cluster? – That is a popular and respectable concern. If there wasn’t enough money in the budget, it would not have been an option. The money currently earmarked for high school additions would be used to build a Doraville High School.
Due to the actual collections, the total E-SPLOST IV budget is currently $618.5 million. The E-SPLOST V project list was originally based on a conservative estimate of $500 million in collections. In November 2016 the E-SPLOST V budget grew to $530 million. In December, it grew again to $560 million.
The monthly financial reports show that we collect roughly $10 million every month in SPLOST monies. I expect the E-SPLOST V budget to grow to as much as $650 million over the next 5 years.
Teacher Pay – State law prohibits E-SPLOST money going towards employee salaries.
What am I asking? – I’m trying to understand the current support for the building addition.
There are no positives to this scenario. No Schoolssucceeds more when you add hundreds of seats to campuses designed for 1/3 fewer students. But that is what DeKalb wants. We have to social engineer.. At Chamblee, we will now likely get students from 2 failing elementary schools. Montclair and Dresden are 2 of the 26 (!) DeKalb schools on the failing list. That 26 number should scare the hel out of you and make you realize that despite some on this forum’s cupcakes and lollipop outlook, that this school system is woefully incompetent. Chamblee wil now have to manage an environment that combines the magnet program with two of the worst feeders elementary schools in the state. How do you give either group the services it needs? It will be watered down on both sides. As a parent of 2 kids in the program, I question how that will work.
Dunwoody … “smart people, smart city” … Hah. $16 million dollar investment at Dunwoody High School that decreases the quality of life and education for the Dunwoody High School students, community and everybody that lives within a half mile of the high school.
Well done school council. Thanks!
Here’s the deal. This is NOT Gwinnett. We didn’t start building mega high schools and to try to retro-fit existing smaller schools into larger schools is a disaster waiting to happen. Because we don’t want a Doraville High School, we are literally going to ruin several well performing schools by trying to turn them into mega high schools. Not sure why Dunwoody School Council is just now figuring this out. You have to be pretty naive to not realize what was going on, but yet the bought it – hook line and sinker. You reap what you sow. Thanks a lot….
Stan, isn’t the answer to your question “redistricting?” That about sums it up. Based on what has been said, it seems that if there was a plan that required mandatory electric shocks, but no redistricting, people would vote for that one. There isn’t going to be a group of people in matching t-shirts demanding a chorus room.
RunAmok and Russell, I don’t think the DHS school council has figured that out. Just last week the DHS school council chair posted this on my blog. As you can imagine, the council’s position has been the point of a lot of confusion for me. Given what is currently known about the building addition plan at DHS, let me know if anybody can make sense of Mr. Griffith’s latest statement or the council’s position.
Chad Griffith, DHS School Council Chair said:
I don’t think the solution can be that simple. I also agree that smaller schools are better, but land is increasingly hard to find. By the 2022 forcast, DHS will have ~1600 students, even if Hightower ES is redistricted to a new Doraville HS. Are you suggesting that Chestnut ES get redistricted as well, when they are so logistically close to Peachtree Middle School and within natural geographic boundaries (i.e. not travelling across I-285 to attend Sequoyah MS)? Or are you suggesting a split feeder system? In 2022, DHS will be at capacity either way and will need a solution. Can you give insight on whether the district intents to build all new High Schools for a 2500-student capacity, so also intends to increase capacity at all existing High Schools to 2500-students?
Land is going to get increasingly expensive, especially when the GM plant site gets developed. One thing is for certain, we can’t keep adding 600 – 750 seats to our existing high schools every 5 to 10 years. I don’t believe the district has any plans except for what is on the current E-SPLOST V project list.
When this plan fails…will anybody be held accountable? Let’s face Dan Drake has failed in his long range planning before. If he didn’t fail before we would not be looking at overcrowding in some of our newest built and remodeled schools. Joshua Williams has a Taj Mahal mentality, why else are we spending $14 million on artificial turf for practice fields. We need two new High Schools. To continue the additions to current High Schools is leading to a dead end where everybody will suffer. Look at what these buildings and the parking….will look like. Will they have a positive impact on the surrounding communities?
Chad says “When you say that the plan from DCSD does not address common areas, you are misrepresenting facts.”
Hey Chad, I think you’re misrepresenting the facts. DHS gets 600 more seats and a 485 sq/ft extension to the cafeteria to go with it. Oh … yeah … the common area sure is addressed.
Thanks Chad and school council!
Stan. You didn’t answer Marks question about Chesnut? Lets be honest here, you can say all you want about Dunwoody staying in Dunwoody but we all know what ultimately happens to Chesnut if a Doraville HS gets built. Also, isn’t all of this a conflict of interest for you as well? I don’t think I need to explain why..
I’m happy to discuss the speculation about redistricting once we all agree that any support for the building additions at DHS are strictly about redistricting. Outside of that issue, the building additions are really bad for everyone in the Dunwoody high school community.
Sorry, you’ll have to explain the conflict of interest.
Stan, I’m throwing a debate yellow card on that position. Why the conditions on speculating about redistricting? You’ve been encouraging that discussion for weeks across D1, D2, and D4 right here on this blog except about the case of such a cluster becoming real.
Why is speculating about the composition of a hypothetical “Doraville HS cluster” suddenly to be avoided? I think it would be very enlightening as I personally see it as the primary driver of opposition to the alternatives and the reason why “B” style solutions were preferred by many.
I’m disaggregating the effects of the building additions and the speculation that some Dunwoody residents would be redistricted out of DHS. Redistricting is indeed an important subject. First, I would like to analyze and finalize the effects of the proposed conceptual building additions plans on the DHS student population and community at large.
The building additions will result in less common space per student. That means more crowded cafeteria, hallways, locker rooms, gymnasium, fields, band room and all other common spaces. The building additions will also increase traffic and exacerbate parking problems in surrounding neighborhoods. All of these things will affect the education of students at DHS and the quality of life for the students and the Dunwoody community.
I’m waiting to hear from anybody that has anything positive to say about the building additions. DHS school council, Dunwoody School Daze, the two ladies from Kingsley and Chesnut that wrote the board and senior administration regarding their concerns about my representation of the community, I challenge you all to tell me the positives that would come from these building additions at DHS that wouldn’t happen otherwise.
I’ll start you off … the conceptual plan for the building additions includes the removal of the swamp/retention pond in front of the school.
Fair enough but that I have seen that you can engage in a multi-dimensional discussion when it suits you. The community in D1, 2 and 4 with your encouragement has been engaged in painful and long dialog here on factchecker about redistricting under the current recommendation with no other apparent goal than stirring up opposition based on hypothetical redistricting.
I think it odd that suddenly we must compartmentalize the discussions about the sites and redistricting. That is precisely what you insisted must happen in reverse.
To discuss the redistricting required to open an “Doraville HS cluster” would be just as contentious, or perhaps even more so, than that about an expanded Cross Keys replacement. That has been part of my point all along to you and others who so readily encouraged redistricting discussions here knowing it only sows discord and resistance to any recommendation from DCSD. And it really didn’t further the dialog on the projects and site improvements one bit.
I think I’ve demonstrated I’m more than willing to have tough conversations about my views. I would ask the same from you as moderator of the propositions you float here.
Overruled Mr. Gokce. The merits of the building additions are the focus here. Please stay on point.
Lol. Where were you the last three months?
There have been a number of requests for the moderator to be more engaged. My New Year’s resolution is to keep the conversations productive and on point.
Alright, Stan. I know how to stay between the lines. I wish it had been your position during the past three months. I will behave.
Although I NEVER agree with Stan, Chesnut is to close to Peachtree to ever be booted out of the DHS cluster.
Watch out, Stan, Gokce will accuse you of being a “hater” soon.
Due to the current crowded conditions, don’t teachers have to share classrooms and get displaced during planning periods because other teachers need the teaching space? Wouldn’t a new bank of classrooms benefit these teachers?
Jim -not when there are 500-800 more students that fill those classrooms. #math
Stan, I am curious about the driving forces for this post. Even if no one disagrees with your premise, has the ship not already sailed?
Wouldn’t a new bank of classrooms benefit the teachers that currently have to share? – The negatives outweigh the positives regarding portable classrooms. They are usually inconveniently located but sometimes have larger classrooms. They are always less safe when it comes to security and treacherous weather. Either plan would address the portables and sharing classrooms.
Why are we still discussing the merits of the board approved building addition? – Currently, whenever anybody asks me about the building additions, I tell them what a horrible idea this is and how detrimental it will be for the Dunwoody students and community. I would like to understand and be able to speak to the positives for the building additions over the Doraville cluster option.
The only thing I have so far is that 1) it will address the DHS swamp 2) it’s good for property values in half of Doraville and 3) it will leave more money for South DeKalb.
Yup. But thanks.
Stan – why is this only focused on Dunwoody? Last time I checked Chamblee was part of your district too.
One at a time. Chamblee Charter HS article is next.
Here are my thoughts. LHS addition was finished in 2012. In 2014, the LHS School Council wrote a letter to the Superintendent wanting to know why they are already having floaters in their school. This year they have 22 floating teachers. I honestly do not believe the new addition and the future growth is going to stop floaters.
Here is the monkey wrench that no one is looking out. Governor Deal’s OSD failed big time with the voters. He wants schools off the failing list. DCSD has had the privilege of having waivers to pack our students into classrooms like cattle. What is going to happen if or when the Governor says NOPE, no more waivers for you. You think there are floaters now. Just wait.
Unfortunately, DeKalb Schools is a Strategic Waivers School System (SWSS) and now (effectively) has all waivers indefinitely. I’m curious to see how the state tries to get involved. Historically, the GA DOE provides guidance only. The top of the food chain is the local superintendent.
Stan,
Let me repeat your last comment: THE TOP OF THE FOOD CHAIN IS THE LOCAL SUPERINTENDENT.
DCSD stakeholders can’t expect the State School Board or State School Superintendent or Georgia Department of Education or the Governor to rescue us from poor local decisions. All of these folks are mainly toothless, as they have routinely agreed to retroactive waivers for the past several years that permit DCSD to exceed State class size requirements and to ignore State classroom spending minimums.
Now that DCSD has the Strategic Waiver School System label, DCSD doesn’t even have to seek retroactive State approval when it fails to comply with State requirements.
So much is riding on Dr. Green. I see glimmers of hope, but then I see a still-bloated Central Office staff. I see a BOE that approved $300,000 – $400,000 just 3 days ago for more highly paid Central Office staffers. Two of those folks make more than Principals do – that’s not right!
Green is no different. Everyone knows the definition of insanity. Until we get away from bloated 100,000 student school systems that are more into social engineering than education, we will fail. City school systems are the right way to go.
So, given all of the above, is restricting students out of DHS cluster going to happen? If so, which schools are included?
What the hell is going on with the leadership at DHS school council, Kingsley and Chesnut? Have they no defense of their positions?
Dunwoody Mom, where are you on this? Apparently silent when the facts come out.
Or maybe they learned this is not a place for honest dialogue.
Or they can’t admit it when they are wrong. I sat across the table from Griffith, school council chair, and told him he wasn’t getting renovations to the gym, art room, existing media room, lockers etc … and he insisted they were. I told him the only thing Dunwoody HS would get would is an expansion of the kitchen and cafeteria and the swamp would be turned into a parking lot.
I realize it’s painful to be wrong in public, but school council is no small deal and their decisions will be to the detriment of academic achievement at Dunwoody High School and the community at large.
Well there you have it. If you “have it out” for them why on earth would they bother to engage in this forum? (rhetorical)
I don’t “have it out” for them. I want them to publicly defend their position. I want somebody to tell me how this is remotely good for the students or Dunwoody community.
That sounds a lot like “having it out” for them to me. Perhaps rebuilding rapport in private, productive conversations would allow relations that are naturally strained to be reset. As it stands, our local dialog has started to mirror the national dialog where there is a whole lot of angry talking and zero earnest listening.
Nice and condescending Butt Munch.
The only feedback I’ve received thus far from building addition supporters is “Can you please stop talking about this publicly”.
To your point/criticism, I always build a rapport in private. I meet with people, send emails and have productive conversations.
You have no idea what my relationship is with the DHS school council chair, Mr. Griffith. I met with Mr. Griffith privately and publicly. I traded numerous emails and have had numerous phone conversations with him.
DIO: I call it like I see it condescending or not. And Stan doesn’t need you running cover for him.
Stan, my only point is that the way these calls for engagement read here is as an obvious, baited trap. We are all popping popcorn and refilling our drinks waiting for it to spring. But the quarry isn’t arriving.
As one who is used to being ambushed perhaps I’m too sensitive. I’ll leave it alone.
We are getting off track here guys. Please take this offline and do some of that rapport building.
Each and every time people say DHS gets 600 more students, it’s a misrepresentation.
The 600 is the capacity increase on paper. DHS is already way over capacity.
The plan provides ***relief*** for the extra students already there, already cramped in. The net add is to bring current overcapacity + future growth in line.
Stop spreading lies and fear about 600 MORE students. It’s simply not true.
The Whole Truth – comprehension is important. Go back and reread the title of the blog. The word used is seats not students.
Here’s a little food for thought. Dunwoody High School is “way over capacity” now. The school district has let Dunwoody be over capacity. The school district just did a major renovation a few years ago. The school district has a history of bad predictions of future attendance growth. The school district doesn’t routinely use redistricting to best use the high schools we have. There is plenty of capacity across the district if redistricting is done. Only a fool would believe that after this capacity increase that DHS won’t be over capacity very soon on one of the smallest campuses in DeKalb. Atta boy, “Truth”!
You should change your name to The Whole Fool. Then we would know that either you are ridiculous or you think that we are.
Thank you for your comment “The Whole Truth”. I recommend that you please reread the post.
The entire post centers around the question:
Will the addition of 600 seats (300ish students) or redistricting 600 students out of DHS make things better or worse for the school and the community?
If we add 600 seats, DHS is projected to be at capacity by 2022. In the November FAQ, the administration says “Our buildings will be designed so that, if warranted, we can add additional building capacity to accommodate future student capacity”. We can’t add 600 seats to DHS every 5 to 10 years … this is not a scalable solution.
While we are adding seats, we are doing very little or nothing to the common spaces. The common spaces being addressed are not proportional to the number of seats being added. These building additions mean less common space per student … more crowded gym, cafeteria, locker room, hallways, etc … it’s detrimental to the students and community of Dunwoody HS.
“The Whole Truth”, I ask you “How are these building additions better for the DHS students and community?”
Stan-So you say-
I’m happy to discuss the speculation about redistricting once we all agree that any support for the building additions at DHS are strictly about redistricting. Outside of that issue, the building additions are really bad for everyone in the Dunwoody high school community.
Sorry, you’ll have to explain the conflict of interest.
My answer…So basically you want people to agree with you THEN you will address the 600 kids that are going to be redistricted out of Dunwoody?? Maybe for those 600 kids, it is better to stay in a bigger DHS then be redistricted somewhere else. Please give your solution to the redistricting then we can talk about bigger or smaller. I suspect you would say they can stay in Dunwoody but you are smart enough to know that isn’t going to happen. And as for the conflict of interest. You really don’t know why? I don’t believe it but her it goes. If those 600 kids get redistricted out of Dunwoody, DHS becomes a de facto private school and immediately raises your home value. By a lot. Your traffic “issues” become less so. I deal with traffic every day in Dunwoody. It is what it is. Maybe you do have the best interest of every single person within the Dunwoody city limits but I am sure you can clearly how this would positively affect you. Conflict of interest. How about we redistrict Austin kids to North Springs?? I get it. Different counties but I suspect your argument would be much different.
Regardless of Stan’s motivations, he has a point about the construction being about redistricting. Every cluster said they wanted to stay together. In order to meet that request, DCSD “listened” and plans to add on to each high school in Region 1 and 2 to make room for the current overcrowding and enrollment projections. Unfortunatley the public got duped because in the end, DCSD is also going to redistrct pieces and parts to make the space and numbers work. The moral of the story: be careful what you ask for. Now we will have mega schools that are ill designed for best instructional practices, students will be redistricted, and the schools will be at capacity at the end of SPLOST V. The other option, adding an additional high school for these 2 regions, would also have resulted in redistricting to create a new cluster but we would get a new high school designed for a larger enrollment that could implement best practices in a state of the art facility (think Arabia Mountain with Chamblee’s pool and Lakeside’s auditorium!)
It’s not a conflict of interest, redistricting directly affects roughly 0% of the people living in the City of Dunwoody in both plans. It’s relevance is minuscule, so I want to know how the building additions are good for the students and people of Dunwoody.
Obviously, a Doraville Cluster would affect everybody in Doraville. That has been discussed before and will be discussed again, but it is irrelevant to the question at hand.
There are not 600 kids from Doraville so where do the remaining of the 600 come from? If Doraville gets a HS, we all know where Dekalb is going to put the Chesnut and Kingsley kids. And yes, it is a conflict of interest either way for you because you live in the area. Again, I am not accusing you of putting your best interests first. The fact that you live in affected area is the definition of conflict of interest.
And that’s the speculation … that some group of people from Dunwoody are going to be redistricted to Doraville. Either way, it’s not the “big rock” in this plan. We must put the big rocks in the jar first.
Y’all, Stan has to live in Region 1 to represent Region 1. There’s no conflict of interest, rather, he probably has more detailed information about the needs of this area.
Sheesh!